Episode 10: The Teacher As Computational Thinker with Nicole Kang
How you can reach Nicole:
Twitter: @NikoRawrs
Website: elementari.io
Transcript:
(transcription by kayla.r.fainer@gmail.com)
Melissa Milner 00:09
Hi, this is Melissa Milner. Welcome to The Teacher As... podcast. The goal of this weekly podcast is to help you explore your passions and learn from others in education and beyond to better your teaching. The Teacher As... will highlight uncommon parallels to teaching, as well as share practical ideas for the classroom.
In this episode, I interview Nicole Kang. Among her many accomplishments, she created a website for children to learn coding for a purpose. That purpose is to tell stories. Now that is cool. Enjoy my interview with Nicole Kang. Welcome, Nicole. Thanks for taking the time out to talk with me.
Nicole Kang 00:47
Thanks for having me.
Melissa Milner 00:49
So what would you like The Teacher As... listeners to know about you?
Nicole Kang 00:53
So I thought about this, and there is a lot of answers. I think that the one that parents and teachers are most interested and impressed about is the fact that I went to MIT. I'm a first generation college student, and now I'm kind of starting my own company. My parents both teach Tae Kwon Do, so I guess that's where I found my interest in teaching at a very young age.
And what I really want people to know about me as like, what I'm passionate about, is just that I really love playing. And what I mean by that is just having fun, playing video games, playing the flute, just fun in general. And that's what I try to bring into my work is how to integrate play into education.
And so more about my professional, not so professional background, I taught in various settings, basically STEM camps, calculus, English as a second language, Tae Kwon Do obviously. And I was also an educational researcher focusing on scientific inquiry, game based learning and literacy and all that. Yeah, so I ended up quitting my higher education to develop my startup, Elementari, which is an online platform to read, write, code and share interactive stories using professional illustrations and sounds.
Melissa Milner 02:15
It's amazing. I had no idea all of the education background that you had. So can you tell us more about the work you're doing with the coding and the digital storytelling?
Nicole Kang 02:27
Yeah. So Elementari actually started out as part of my thesis. And originally, I was looking for a way to create more interactive content, because a static slide isn't very fun for kids. And then more recently, it shifted gears and really focused on engaging students to write and code their own stories.
And really, the reasoning behind that was I started doing a lot of research on literacy and just literacy rates in the US. And some of the figures are really shocking, because we have so many kids in the US, which you think since they go through public education, they should be able to have these skills. But they really don't.
And after talking to teachers, you have teachers who say their students have to have tests administered via audio, because they can't actually read the questions and all these things. When you know about this, you're like, what are these kids gonna do when they finish high school and later in life? So really, the goal of Elementari is to make writing fun. Because if writing is fun, then they can improve their writing and also their reading skills.
So there's a lot of research that just basically shows the link between writing and reading. And if you read more, you're going to write better. And if you write more, you're also going to read better. So I'm really big on literacy as the big, big point. But my other background is in STEM, obviously, and I really am passionate about coding. And I kind of sneak coding into all the curricular subjects. Because I integrate code as a way to just have students have more voice and choice in expressing themselves.
So I always tell English teachers who are interested in using Elementari that it's not about the coding, it's about the storytelling. But the kids will want to do cool things to their story. They're going to want to maybe add a background music, maybe have different endings. Maybe they want to have a voice over or animation. And in order to do these cool things, they're actually going to have to code.
Melissa Milner 04:32
Yeah, that's so cool.
Nicole Kang 04:34
Yeah. So it's not like saying, okay, kid, you're going to learn how to code. But it's introduced in a more subtle way that can hopefully get more kids interested. So that's kind of like the goal of it, and try to integrate these two different subjects together into one project. Because we think of coding as like, oh, math and robots, and writing as like, oh, it's like the literary arts people. And these two groups of people, they don't mix with each other.
Melissa Milner 05:04
Right. It's so interesting, because I had Angela Stockman on. And she does this-- I don't know if you're familiar with her work. But she's all about Make Writing, where the kids will build with Play-Doh before they ever write anything. And it helps them to be creative. And I wonder whether the coding would serve as that Make Writing piece in a way.
Nicole Kang 05:23
Yeah, definitely. I can see that, especially since if you're doing Make Writing, you would see that as more of a maybe a younger student emerging writer sort of activity. And then they could do their artistic piece, whether it's drawing or Play-Doh. And then later on, they might want to turn whatever they've done into maybe just like a pencil, paper storyboard.
And then they would go on to Elementari to put it into a digital piece that they can actually publish and share. Because digital is really powerful, because you can share it very easily with other people. And there's a lot of really cool things you can do with that.
Melissa Milner 06:01
It's nice, because Angela does like post-its for the story, sort of to plan out. And I can totally see it. And by the way, Make Writing is for all ages, K-12, really. I know it sounds-- but actually, it helps reluctant writers, but it helps all writers get deeper. Because they're not worried about print.
Basically they're not limited by their print power if they're making something out of Play-Doh or drawing something first to think through their story. So I'm really interested in this whole storytelling and Make Writing, and then I saw your site. And I'm like, OMG, this is amazing. So I also want to say Elementari is with an I.
Nicole Kang 06:42
Yeah. So it's elementary spelled like elementary school, and then instead of a Y, it's an I at the end. So it's like the Latin form.
Melissa Milner 06:50
I love it. Did you have a big background with coding yourself?
Nicole Kang 06:54
Actually, no. So I was always good at math and science growing up, but I was never really interested in computer science or with robotics. Because that's usually what-- at least when I was growing up, computer science was mostly linked to robotics and robotic applications. And that was not something that interested me too much. I actually never-- I took an introduction computer science course when I was at MIT, but that was because at the beginning stages of when I entered MIT, I wanted to do computational biology.
Melissa Milner 07:32
Wow.
Nicole Kang 07:34
That obviously changed quite a bit. After I took a course in organic chemistry, I was like, no, this isn't for me.
Melissa Milner 07:42
So many people say that, Nicole, so many people, that that course is the deal breaker.
Nicole Kang 07:48
So I was like, oh no. And then I was like, if I wanted to work for the CDC, I would need to stay in academia for 10 years before I can get a job. So I was like, maybe not.
Melissa Milner 07:58
Wow.
Nicole Kang 07:59
So I switched gears quite quickly. And on top of that, while I was at MIT-- so you can't actually get a degree in education at MIT. It doesn't exist. So I actually graduated in Business Management, but all my work was done in education. So I was part of the educational arcade and worked on MITx, part of the MOOCs when they were coming out, the massive online courses, and doing stuff with that. So that was kind of what I was doing, and then running STEM camps for elementary age school children every summer and winter in South Korea. So that's kind of what I did.
Melissa Milner 08:38
Why is it important for children to learn coding, and what are the benefits?
Nicole Kang 08:42
When I say coding, I really mean computational thinking. And basically, this is just a fancy term that means problem solving and conveying the solution in a way that computers can understand. So really, computational thinking is about building solid, analytical and logical skills. And this can be applied to any subject area.
The reason why computers is really good is because computers are kind of stupid. So when you want to give directions to a computer, you have to be extremely explicit about what process you want, and you need to be able to break down your problem into different mini steps in order to kind of accomplish what you want. So like, when you talk to a person, people are much smarter. They can kind of get what you want.
But computers don't get that at all. So they'll return an error message, or they'll do something that is completely different from what you want to do. And this type of feedback is really, I think, really important for kids, because first of all, they learn that they can fail and that they will fail frequently. And it becomes a normalized process of the learning. And just the simple fact of when you're trying to communicate with someone what your code is, it also builds other key skills like communication, teamwork, all these great things that are just necessary for pretty much life.
And on top of that, if you want to be a programmer, and if you do want to go into computer science, then obviously having a background in it will really help in that regard. But I really believe that coding can-- it's a bit like writing. We teach kids how to write, because it's fundamental for just their success in life. It helps them organize their thoughts. It helps them communicate, and it's a similar way with coding in the same regard.
We don't expect all kids to be writers or novelists or people like that. And we don't really expect all kids who code to end up becoming programmers. But the skills that they learn when they're doing these projects are really, I think, key to just whatever they want to do later in their life, or if they want to go on for higher education, it will help with that. And it's just fun.
Melissa Milner 11:01
For me, it's like oh, coding, yeah, I did that. I went on to one of those cute programs, and I made the little angry bird move over to the-- And I had just had to say, go to the left, go to the right, there's a few steps, and then he moved. And like, it's so much deeper.
What you just described is like design thinking and all those 21st century skills, that computational thinking. That's fascinating. I'm so glad that you are doing this work and that I was able to talk to you about all this. Because now I'm like, okay, I have new things to research now.
Nicole Kang 11:37
Yeah, I think we have a misconception of coding. Because when we introduce coding, it's kind of like a math problem, the way that we introduce it. It's like you have to solve the math problem. You have to make the bird go to the left, go to the top, and exit the maze, for example. And that is a really great way to introduce it, because it doesn't take as much time. You can put it very easily into your classroom day. Be like, okay, hour of code, we're going to have one hour coding. Okay, after that, it's done, finished. We did coding.
Melissa Milner 12:09
Unfortunately, that's true.
Nicole Kang 12:12
Yeah. So I mean, it's a good way to introduce. But if you really want to go deeper, it's so much more, and it's really about making things personalized. I always go back to writing again, because writing, when you do like a grammar sentence, figuring out what the subject, verb, the predicate of the sentences, that's a writing exercise. But it's not like writing when we think of writing nowadays.
When we think of writing, we think, oh, you're going to write a story, or you're going to write an essay, or you're going to write an opinion piece. It's for a purpose. Generally, when we write, it's for a purpose. And I think it's similar to code. When we code something, we kind of want to code for a purpose. And the more we put into it, then the more we will get out of it.
Melissa Milner 13:05
What is your proudest moment in your work so far?
Nicole Kang 13:07
My proudest moment, of course, when I was a teacher is always what teachers are always proud of. It's their students, whenever they see their students doing well in life, they feel really proud. Now as a developer slash website person per se, what I'm really proud about are the really small things. So for example, when I see a kid, from who knows where, write and code a story for more than three hours on a Sunday, just because he wanted to or she wanted to for fun, that gets me really excited. Because I'm like, wow, this is doing something for someone that I don't even really know.
And then another instance was I read in the description. So when you publish a story, you have a title and you have a description that you can add. And in the description of one of the stories, it said, thank you to some persons, some other user, for inspiring me to write my own story. And I was like, oh my god, that is so cute.
Melissa Milner 14:15
Wow, that's so powerful.
Nicole Kang 14:17
Yeah. And so when I was a normal face to face teacher, I would have a maximum 100 students. So I could really only affect those 100 students. Or even when I was holding webinars with other teachers, I could only really affect those teachers who then affected those students. But my hope is really, through Elementari as a platform and as a community, I can really positively impact and get more kids writing and coding all around the world. So hopefully, we get more and more people on board and getting them excited about writing and coding. So that's kind of my thing.
Melissa Milner 14:57
That's so awesome. So speaking of all these projects, what are you zooming in on right now with your work?
[ZOOMING IN SOUNDBITE]
Nicole Kang 15:07
So for the past, I think two weeks-ish, I don't remember, I was streaming sessions with different teachers on creating lessons to use Elementari or writing code in their classrooms. So for example, one of them would be a fourth grade English teacher. Another one would be like, oh, how about I use it with my kindergartners? Or another one would be an ESL teacher trying to teach high school students. Those are some examples.
And starting Monday, this Monday, AKA, I don't know, August 24th, I will be holding free weekly story coding clubs for kids. So basically, there'll be weekly events. I'm holding two clubs right now. One of them is for grades 3-ish to 5. And the second one is grades 5 and up. And so these are going to be project-based, and so far we've had kids register from literally around the world. So I'm really excited, because I miss teaching kids.
Melissa Milner 16:18
So will you do live teaching as part of that, or no?
Nicole Kang 16:23
Yeah. So I will be live with them in the classroom, and then we will be recording my lovely face and screen and stuff for people who can't attend because they missed it out. It's going to be free, and basically at the end of my session, I'm just going to say, if you like this, then please consider subscribing and upgrading your subscription. Because it is free to create on Elementari.
Melissa Milner 16:47
That's so cool. So a really important question, what's your favorite movie, and why?
Nicole Kang 16:52
My favorite movie. So I have a tough time with this, because I don't actually watch that many movies.
Melissa Milner 16:59
What?
Nicole Kang 17:00
Yeah, I'm more of a gamer slash book person, so like total nerd. But one of my favorite movies in recent times is Silent Voice. It's a Japanese animated movie. I think the original name is Koe no Katachi. And basically, it's a teen movie. And it's about a grade school student who is hearing impaired and gets bullied at school. And so she transfers to another school, and then you have a time skip where her bully is basically trying to find his redemption story.
So it was very touching, and I really enjoyed it. And it really delved into the topic of bullying in a less black and white sort of way, but more nuanced and interesting sort of way. Because oftentimes when we think of bullying, it's like, oh, he's bullying her. And so therefore, he's a bad guy and things like that. But it could be a lot more complicated. So this movie kind of goes into this really complex topic of bullying on top of being a kid that has a disability.
Melissa Milner 18:18
That sounds amazing. I'll have to check that out. Hopefully it's streaming on Netflix or something I can find it.
Nicole Kang 18:25
I'm pretty sure it is.
Melissa Milner 18:27
Very cool. I love when someone shares a movie that I haven't heard of. I love it. It's great.
Nicole Kang 18:34
Yeah, I just know anime movies. So that's pretty much it.
Melissa Milner 18:37
That's awesome. So how can people reach you to find out more about your work?
Nicole Kang 18:42
So I am on Twitter @NikoRawrs, N-I-K-O-R-A-W-R-S, like a dino. And basically anywhere you message Elementari goes directly to me, because we are a tiny company. So I do deal with everything related to communications, education, and everything related to that side of things.
Melissa Milner 19:07
So that would be E-L-E-M-E-N-T-A-R-I.
Nicole Kang 19:13
Dot I-O. Yeah, so there's a contact form there. You can also request for a webinar there. And at some point, I'll also put the club's information on there, as well. Elementari is free for one class of up to 35 students. You have some limited features, but we do want everyone to be able to create stories.
Melissa Milner 19:33
I think that's amazing that you're offering that for free. And obviously, you can upgrade if you want to. But to be able to just get in there with one class and do something and see if you like it first is pretty amazing.
Nicole Kang 19:46
Yeah. You can also just do it as an individual. Teachers have used it to create escape rooms, for example, or have their kids go on and create stories themselves outside of the school.
Melissa Milner 20:00
Oh, yeah. I didn't even think of-- yeah, it's a way for a teacher to produce content. Interesting. Wow. So thank you so much, Nicole, for taking the time out. I really appreciate it.
Nicole Kang 20:11
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me.
Melissa Milner 20:14
If you enjoyed this episode, and have not done so already, please hit the subscribe button for The Teacher As... podcast so you can get future episodes. I would love for you to leave a review and a rating, as well, if you have time. For my blog, transcripts of this episode and links to any resources mentioned, visit my website at www.theteacheras.com. You can reach me on Twitter and Instagram @melissabmilner. And I hope you check out The Teacher As... Facebook page for episode updates.
I am sending a special thanks to Linda and Lester Fleishman, my mom and dad, for being so supportive. They are the voices you hear in the Zooming In soundbite. And my dad composed and performed the background music you are listening to right now. My intro music was "Upbeat Party" by Scott Holmes.
So what are you zooming in on? I would love to hear from you. My hope is that we all share what we are doing in the classroom in order to teach, remind, affirm and inspire each other. Thanks for listening. And that's a wrap!